_Bun._ I told him, I was as willing to be taught as to give instruction, and I looked upon it as my duty to do both; for, said I, a man that is a teacher, he himself may learn also from another that teacheth, as the apostle saith, _We may all prophesy one by one_, _that all may learn_. 1 Cor. xiv. 31. That is, every man that hath received a gift from God, he may dispense it, that others may be comforted; and when he hath done, he may hear and learn, and be comforted himself of others.
_Cobb_. But, said he, what if you should forbear awhile, and sit still, till you see further how things will go?
_Bun._ Sir, said I, _Wickliffe_ saith, that he which leaveth off preaching and hearing of the Word of God for fear of excommunication of men, he is already excommunicated of God, and shall in the day of judgment be counted a traitor to Christ. {214}
_Cobb_. Ay, saith he, they that do not hear shall be so counted indeed; do you, therefore, hear?
_Bun._ But, Sir, said I, he saith, he that shall leave off either preaching or hearing, etc. That is, if he hath received a gift for edification, it is his sin, if he doth not lay it out in a way of exhortation and counsel, according to the proportion of his gift; as well as to spend his time altogether in hearing others preach.
_Cobb_. But, said he, how shall we know that you have received a gift?
_Bun._ Said I, Let any man hear and search, and prove the doctrine by the Bible.
_Cobb_. But will you be willing, said he, that two indifferent persons shall determine the case; and will you stand by their judgment?
_Bun._ I said, Are they infallible?
_Cobb_. He said, No.
_Bun._ Then, said I, it is possible my judgment may be as good as theirs. But yet I will pass by either, and in this matter be judged by the Scriptures; I am sure that is infallible, and cannot err.
_Cobb_. But, said he, who shall be judge between you, for you take the Scriptures one way, and they another?
_Bun._ I said the Scripture should: and that by comparing one Scripture with another; for that will open itself, if it be rightly compared. As for instance, if under the different apprehensions of the word _Mediator_, you would know the truth of it, the Scriptures open it, and tell us that he that is a mediator must take up the business between two, and a mediator is not a mediator of one,—_but God is one_, _and there is one Mediator between God and men_, _even the man Christ Jesus_. Gal. iii. 20; 1 Tim. ii. 5. So likewise the Scripture calleth Christ a _complete_, or perfect, or able _high priest_. That is opened in that He is called man, and also God. His blood also is discovered to be effectually efficacious by the same things. So the Scripture, as touching the matter of meeting together, etc., doth likewise sufficiently open itself and discover its meaning.
_Cobb_. But are you willing, said he, to stand to the judgment of the church?
_Bun._ Yes, Sir, said I, to the approbation of the church of God; (the church’s judgment is best expressed in Scripture). We had much other discourse which I cannot well remember, about the laws of the nation, and submission to governments; to which I did tell him, that I did look upon myself as bound in conscience to walk according to all righteous laws, and that, whether there was a king or no; and if I did any thing that was contrary, I did hold it my duty to bear patiently the penalty of the law, that was provided against such offenders; with many more words to the like effect. And said, moreover, that to cut off all occasions of suspicion from any, as touching the harmlessness of my doctrine in private, I would willingly take the pains to give any one the notes of all my sermons; for I do sincerely desire to live quietly in my country, and to submit to the present authority.
_Cobb_. Well, neighbour _Bunyan_, said he, but indeed I would wish you seriously to consider of these things, between this and the quarter-sessions, and to submit yourself. You may do much good if you continue still in the land; but alas, what benefit will it be to your friends, or what good can you do to them, if you should be sent away beyond the seas into _Spain_, or _Constantinople_, or some other remote part of the world? Pray be ruled.
_Jailor_. Indeed, Sir, I hope he will be ruled.
_Bun._ I shall desire, said I, in all honesty to behave myself in the nation, whilst I am in it. And if I must be so dealt withal, as you say, I hope God will help me to bear what they shall lay upon me. I know no evil that I have done in this matter, to be so used. I speak as in the presence of God.
_Cobb_. You know, saith he, that the Scripture saith, _the powers that be_, _are ordained of God_.
_Bun._ I said, Yes, and that I was to submit to the King as supreme, and also to the governors, as to them who are sent by Him.