Part 70

“_September 30, 1815._ Had the following conversation with my teacher, as nearly as I can recollect it. This man has been with me about three months, and is the most sensible, learned, and candid man that I have ever found among the Burmans. He is forty-seven years of age, and his name is Oo Oungmen. I began by saying, Mr. J—— is dead. _Oo._ I have heard so. _J._ His soul is lost, I think. _Oo._ Why so? _J._ He was not a disciple of Christ. _Oo._ How do you know that? You could not see his soul. _J._ How do you know whether the root of that mango-tree is good? You can not see it; but you can judge by the fruit on its branches. Thus I know that Mr. J. was not a disciple of Christ, because his words and actions were not such as indicate a disciple. _Oo._ And so all who are not disciples of Christ are lost? _J._ Yes, all, whether Burmans or foreigners. _Oo._ This is hard. _J._ Yes, it is hard indeed; otherwise I should not have come all this way, and left parents and all, to tell you of Christ. He seemed to feel the force of this, and after stopping a little he said, How is it that the disciples of Christ are so fortunate above all men? _J._ Are not all men sinners, and deserving of punishment in a future state? _Oo._ Yes, all must suffer in some future state for the sins they commit. The punishment follows the crime as surely as the wheel of the cart follows the footsteps of the ox. _J._ Now, according to the Burman system, there is no escape. According to the Christian system, there is. Jesus Christ has died in the place of sinners—has borne their sins; and now those who believe on Him, and become His disciples, are released from the punishment they deserve. At death, they are received into heaven, and are happy forever. _Oo._ That I will never believe. My mind is very stiff on this one point, namely, that all existence involves in itself principles of misery and destruction. The whole universe is only destruction and reproduction. It therefore becomes a wise man to raise his desires above all things that exist, and aspire to _nigban_, the state where there is no existence. _J._ Teacher, there are two evil futurities, and one good. A miserable future existence is evil, and annihilation, or nigban, is an evil, a fearful evil. A happy future existence is alone good. _Oo._ I admit that is best, if it could be perpetual; but it can not be. Whatever is, is liable to change, and misery, and destruction. Nigban is the only permanent good, and that good has been attained by Gaudama, the last deity. _J._ If there be no eternal being, you can not account for anything. Whence this world, and all that we see? _Oo._ Fate. _J._ Fate! The cause must always be equal to the effect. See, I raise this table. See also that ant under it Suppose I were invisible, would a wise man say the ant raised it? Now, fate is not even an ant. Fate is a word; that is all. It is not an agent; not a thing. What is fate? _Oo._ The fate of creatures is the influence which their good or bad deeds have on their future existence. _J._ If influence be exerted, there must be an exerter. If there be a determination, there must be a determiner. _Oo._ No, there is no determiner. There can not be an eternal being. _J._ Consider this point. It is a main point of true wisdom. Whenever there is an execution of a purpose, there must be an agent. _Oo._ (After a little thought.) I must say that my mind is very decided and hard, and unless you tell me something more to the purpose, I shall never believe. _J._ Well, teacher, I wish you to believe, not for my profit, but for yours. I daily pray the true God to give you light that you may believe. Whether you will ever believe in this world, I do not know; but when you die, I know you will believe what I now say. You will then appear before the God that you now deny. _Oo._ I don’t know that. _J._ I have heard that one Burman, many years ago, embraced the Portuguese religion, and that he was your relation. _Oo._ He was a brother of my grandfather. _J._ At Ava, or here? _Oo._ At Ava he became a Portuguese; afterwards went to a ship country with a ship-priest, and returned to Ava. _J._ I have heard he was put to death for his religion. _Oo._ No, he was imprisoned and tortured by order of the emperor. At last he escaped from their hands, fled to Rangoon, and afterwards to Bengal, where they say he died. _J._ Did any of his family join him? _Oo._ None; all forsook him; and he wandered about, despised and rejected by all. _J._ Do you think that he was a decided Christian, and had got a new mind? _Oo._ I think so; for when he was tortured hard, he held out. _J._ Did he ever talk with you about religion? _Oo._ Yes. _J._ Why did you not listen to him? _Oo._ I did not listen. _J._ Did you ever know any other Burman that changed his own for a foreign religion? _Oo._ I have heard that there is one now in Rangoon, who became a Portuguese; but he keeps himself concealed, and I have never seen him.”