Then they adjured me still much more; but I replied: “Why do you adjure so much? I care not for your adjuration; for it is the manner of sorcerers, who adjure against the truth. 2 Chron. 33:6. But I now see clearly, how the souls of our two brethren and sisters were murdered and seduced (Ezek. 13:19), it was through your sorcerous adjuration, as they did not guard themselves against the subtlety of the devil, and had not the gift to dispute.”
The guardian then said: “You boasted in your letter, that you would dispute publicly; why do you not dare do it now?”
_Hans._ “You monk, I still desire with all my heart to defend my faith with the word of God, publicly before all men (1 Pet. 3:15); but your cap would shake quite differently, if you had to dispute with me at the risk of the fire, and if the authorities would not protect you.”
_Councilor._ “No, we have no desire to let you dispute publicly; you are now in our hands.”
_Hans._ “I desired it, before I knew that I should fall into your hands; but I see well now, that I have fallen into the talons of the eagle (2 Esdra 11), and whoever gets into them cannot escape without losing soul or body.”
_Councilor._ “Who is the eagle, the Emperor?”
_Hans._ “No, it is the Roman Empire or power; read the letter I wrote you; it will tell you.”
We then exchanged many more words, and the monks became angry at me, and commenced to utter puffed-up words. I then said that Paul had prophesied correctly concerning them, that they were blasphemers, proud, and puffed up. 2 Timothy 3:2.
Thereupon friar Jan de Croock became so enraged that he began to cry: “Fools, fools, heretics, heretics are you!”
_Hans._ “Behold, is this not a fine teacher? but Paul says that a teacher must not be a brawler, nor angry.” 1 Tim. 3:3; Tit. 1:7. The councilor felt ashamed that the monk acted so disgracefully, and commanded him to be silent.
At another subsequent time there came two secular priests: Sir Willem of Nieuwenland, and the parish priest of St. Michael. I asked them what they desired. They replied: “We have come to seek your soul,” This time I kept under cover as much as I could, in hopes that we might dispute openly before the lords, as they told me that they would use their best endeavors in this direction. But when I heard that it could not be, I thought, when they came again with the clerk, we must accost each other in quite a different way, from what we did the last time. I then asked: “What do you wish?”
_Ans._ “We desire that you suffer yourself to be instructed; for, behold, we seek your soul.”
_Hans._ “Do you then take so much pains to seek souls?”
_Ans._ “Yes.”
_Hans._ “Well then, go into the city, to every place, to the drunkards, whoremongers, swearers, railers, covetous, proud, idolaters, revellers, gluttons, and murderers, who shed innocent blood; all these are still your brethren; go, seek their souls; Christ has found mine.”
_Ans._ “We admonish them, and then we have delivered our souls.”
_Hans._ “That is not enough; you must go to them, and reprove them, and if they will not hear you, you must bring them before the church, and reprove them openly; if they still refuse to hear, exclude them from the church, and let them be unto you as heathen and open sinners, as Christ teaches, and Paul writes to the Corinthians. Reprove also your judges, who do violence and injustice, yea, who shed innocent blood.”
One of the priests then said: “Should we go and reprove the magistrates?”
I asked whether God was a respecter of persons.