I warned them, that they should take heed, before they laid their hands upon those that seek to practice their faith in peace, that have done injury to neither you nor yours. They said that we were rebels and seditious, and seduced many simple hearts, and drew them to our faith, and that we were worthy of greater punishment than thieves and robbers. I said: “We seduce no souls; but your false prophets seduce many thousands of souls by their doctrine and false religion, which they practice under a semblance of holiness.”
They looked at me sternly. Many other things were said, which I do not deem necessary to write. And as further regards their asking for my age, and how long I had been in the faith, and concerning my deaconship, I have written it in my other letter, which some of you may have read, as I understand from a letter which I received yesterday. The same came very welcome to me; for, friends, it does so much good, when letters of comfort and warning arrive, yea, they are more acceptable than many pieces of gold. For, friends, a line written by the labor of another, tastes much better than if one had ten times more with himself.
Further, friends, ten or twelve days afterwards the authorities sent two learned men, the parish priest of St. John, and a canon, who also had much to say and made a very long speech, finally asking me, why I had departed from the mother, the Catholic Roman Church. I very briefly said that I did not regard it as the true, holy church. They asked: “Why?” I said: “Because there is nothing else practiced than a false, invented religion.” This they took very ill, and very many things were said upon it, very much as it was with our friends in former times.
And in about ten or twelve days after that, they came again and brought with them the priest Michielken, who is an apostate, and has by this time become a priest. Then the parish priest, whose name is Sir Jan van Dale, said to me: “Do you know Sir Michielken?” I said: “Yes.” He said: “Why do you not also turn from your heresy, as Sir Michielken has done? If your belief were good, he would not have departed from it, and returned to the mother, the holy church.” I said that he had departed from the holy church of God, to the worship of idols and to the doctrine of devils. They asked: “What is idolatry in our church?” I said: “In the first place, all the images that stand in it, before which you burn candles, offer sacrifice, and bow your knees.” They said that the images were the books for the simple, and the mass and sacrifice which they performed, were all holy prayers. I said: “If all were good, as you say, you should put it into Flemish or into Dutch, so that the simple might be taught. For this purpose you have the Gospel book, from which you might teach. But you are afraid, that the people might learn too much from it.” In short, we also had very many words in regard to the sending of preachers, and of infant baptism; but I deem it unnecessary to write much about it, for it all goes the same way as is written in the _Offerboeck_; for if I were to write all, I should not be able to put it on seven or eight sheets of paper; and much of it I have also forgotten, for it occurred at so many different times.
Finally there came the pensionary Schoockman with his son, who is clerk of the criminal court. He ordered that I and Michiel Buyse should come together, to speak with him. Hence I prayed the Lord, that he would keep me according to his promise. Then I went down stairs, and when I and Michiel got there, we respectfully saluted him, and he also bade us a good evening. He asked us together, whether we did not tire of being in prison so long. _Answer._ “We must be patient therein.” “Yes,” said he, “it is your fault, and you inflict it upon yourselves; if you would suffer yourselves to be moved, and would depart from your opinion, all should be well, for it is only vain-glory and a spirit of pride, that impels you to it.” I told him as I said before, that this which demands the sacrifice of body and property was not pride. He strenuously defended the Roman Empire, and greatly exalted the church of the priests, that it had been from the time of the apostles until now. He also adduced many unscriptural arguments, which are not worthy of being written. And again, he said: “Though there are some abuses, it is therefore none the less the faith. I am well aware, that there are priests who might live more virtuously; but we must not look to their works, but hearken after their words.” Michiel said: “A good tree bears good fruit, which a bad tree does not.”