Orth.--Not God only but also Man; Man as sprung from Judah after the flesh and born in Bethlehem; and God as existing before the ages. For the words "Out of thee shall he come forth unto me that is to be Ruler," shew his birth after the flesh which has taken place in the last days; while the words "Whose goings forth have been of old, from everlasting" plainly proclaim His existence before the ages. In like manner also the divine apostle in his Epistle to the Romans bewailing the change to the worse of the ancient felicity of the Jews, and calling to mind their divine promises and legislation, goes on to say "Whose are the fathers, and of whom concerning the flesh Christ came, who is over all God blessed for ever Amen," [998] and in this same passage he exhibits Him both as Creator of all things and Lord and Ruler as God and as sprung from the Jews as man.
Eran.--Well; you have explained these passages, what should you say to the prophecy of Jeremiah? For this proclaims him to be God only.
Orth.--Of what prophecy do you speak?
Eran.--"This is our God and there shall none other be accounted of in comparison to him--he hath found out all the way of knowledge, and hath given it unto Jacob his servant and to Israel his beloved. Afterward did he shew himself upon earth and conversed with men." [999]
In these words the Prophet speaks neither of the flesh, nor of manhood, nor of man, but of God alone.
Orth.--What then is the good of reasoning? Do we say that the Divine nature is invisible? or do we dissent from the Apostle when he says [1000] "Immortal, invisible, the only God."
Eran.--Indubitably the Divine nature is invisible.
Orth.--How then was it possible for the invisible nature to be seen without a body? Or do you not remember those words of the apostle in which he distinctly teaches the invisibility of the divine nature? He says "Whom no man hath seen nor can see." [1001] If therefore the Divine Nature is invisible to men, and I will add too to Angels, tell me how he who cannot be seen or beheld was seen upon earth?
Eran.--The Prophet says [1002] he was seen on the earth.
Orth.--And the apostle says [1003] "Immortal, invisible, the only God" and [1004] "Whom no man hath seen and can see."
Eran.--What then? is the Prophet lying?
Orth.--God forbid. Both utterances are the words of the Holy Ghost.
Eran.--Let us inquire then how the invisible was seen.
Orth.--Do not, I beg you, bring in human reason. I shall yield to scripture alone.
Eran.--You shall receive no argument unconfirmed by Holy Scripture, and if you bring me any solution of the question deduced from Holy Scripture I will receive it, and will in no wise gainsay it.
Orth.--You know how a moment ago we made the word of the evangelist clear by means of the testimony of the apostle; and that the divine apostle showed us how the Word became Flesh, saying plainly "for verily He took not on Him the nature of angels but He took on Him the seed of Abraham." [1005] The same teacher will teach us how the divine Word was seen upon the earth and dwelt among men.
Eran.--I submit to the words both of apostles and of prophets. Shew me then in accordance with your promise the interpretation of the prophecy.
Orth.--The divine apostle, writing to Timothy, also says "without controversy great is the mystery of godliness. God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory." [1006]
It is therefore plain that the divine nature is invisible, but the flesh visible, and that through the visible the invisible was seen, by its means working wonders and unveiling its own power, for with the hand He fashioned the sense of seeing and healed him that was blind from birth. Again He gave the power of hearing to the deaf, and loosed the fettered tongue, using his fingers for a tool and applying his spittle like some healing medicine. So again when He walked upon the sea He displayed the almighty power of the Godhead. Fitly, therefore, did the apostle say "God was manifest in the flesh." For through it appeared the invisible nature beheld by its means by the angel hosts, for "He was seen," he says, "of angels."
The nature then of bodiless beings has shared with us the enjoyment of this boon.
Eran.--Then did not the angels see God before the manifestation of the Saviour?
Orth.--The apostle says that He "was made manifest in the flesh and seen of angels."
Eran.--But the Lord said, "Take heed that ye despise not one of these little ones, for I say unto you that their angels do always behold the face of my Father which is in heaven." [1007]
Orth.--But the Lord said again, "Not that any man hath seen the Father save he which is of God, he hath seen the Father." [1008] Wherefore the evangelist plainly exclaims, "No man hath seen God at any time," [1009] and confirms the word of the Lord, for he says, "The only begotten Son which is in the bosom of the Father He hath declared Him," and the great Moses, when he desired to see the invisible nature, heard the Lord God saying, "There shall no man see me and live." [1010]
Eran.--How then are we to understand the words, "Their angels do always behold the face of my Father which is in heaven"?
Orth.--Just as we commonly understand what is said about men who have been supposed to see God.
Eran.--Pray make this plainer, for I do not understand. Can God be seen of men also?
Orth.--Certainly not.
Eran.--Yet we hear the divine scripture saying God appeared unto Abraham at the oak of Mamre; [1011] and Isaiah says "I saw the Lord sitting upon a throne high and lifted up," [1012] and the same thing is said by Micah, by Daniel and Ezekiel. And of the lawgiver Moses it is related that "The Lord spake to Moses face to face as a man speaketh unto his friend," [1013] and the God of the universe Himself said, "With him will I speak mouth to mouth, even apparently and not in dark speeches." [1014] What then shall we say; did they behold the divine nature?
Orth.--By no means, for God Himself said, "There shall no man see me and live."
Eran.--Then they who say that they have seen God are liars?
Orth.--God forbid--they saw what it was possible for them to see.
Eran.--Then the loving Lord accommodates his revelation to the capacity of them that see Him?
Orth.--Yes; and this He has shewn through the Prophet, "for I," He says, "have multiplied visions and by the hands of the Prophets was made like." [1015]
He does not say "was seen" but "was made like." And making like does not shew the very nature of the thing seen. For even the image of the emperor does not exhibit the emperor's nature, though it distinctly preserves his features.
Eran.--This is obscure and not sufficiently plain. Was not then the substance of God seen by them who beheld those revelations?
Orth.--No; for who is mad enough to dare to say so?
Eran.--But yet it is said that they saw.
Orth.--Yes; it is said; but we both in the exercise of reverent reason, and in reliance on the Divine utterances, which exclaim distinctly, "No man hath seen God at any time," affirm that they did not see the Divine Nature, but certain visions adapted to their capacity.
Eran.--So we say.
Orth.--So also then let us understand of the angels when we hear that they daily see the face of your Father. [1016] For what they see is not the divine substance which cannot be circumscribed, comprehended, or apprehended, which embraces the universe, but some glory made commensurate with their nature.
Eran.--This is acknowledged.
Orth.--After the incarnation, however, He was seen also of angels, as the divine apostle says, not however by similitude of glory, but using the true and living covering of the flesh as a kind of screen. "God," he says, "was made manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels." [1017]
Eran.--I accept this as Scripture, but I am not prepared to accept the novelties of phrase.
Orth.--What novelties of phrase have we introduced?
Eran.--That of the "screen." What Scripture calls the flesh of the Lord a screen?
Orth.--You do not seem to be a very diligent reader of your Bible; if you had been you would not have found fault with what we have said as in a figure. For first of all the fact that the divine apostle says that the invisible nature was made manifest through the flesh allows us to understand the flesh as a screen of the Godhead. Secondly, the divine apostle in his Epistle to the Hebrews, distinctly uses the phrase, for he says, "Having therefore, brethren, boldness to enter into the Holiest by the blood of Jesus by a new and living way, which he hath consecrated for us, through the veil, that is to say his flesh; and having an High Priest over the House of God. Coming with truth drawing near with a true heart in fulness of faith." [1018]
Eran.--Your demonstration is unanswerable, for it is based on apostolic authority.
Orth.--Do not then charge us with innovation. We will adduce for you yet another prophetic authority, distinctly calling the Lord's flesh a robe and mantle.
Eran.--Should it not appear obscure and ambiguous we will say nothing against it, and be thankful for it.
Orth.--I will make you yourself testify to the truth of the promise. You know how the Patriarch Jacob, when he was addressing Judah, limited the sovereignty of Judah by the birth of the Lord. [1019] "A prince shall not fail Judah, nor a leader from his loins until he shall have come to whom it is in store and he is the expectation of the Gentiles." You have already confessed that this prophecy was uttered about the saviour.
Eran.--I have.
Orth.--Remember then what follows; for he says "And unto him shall the gathering of the people be...he shall wash his robe in wine and his mantle in the blood of the grape." [1020]
Eran.--The Patriarch spoke of garments, not of a body.
Orth.--Tell me, then, when or where he washed his cloak in the blood of the grape?
Eran.--Nay; tell me you when he reddened his body in it?
Orth.--Answer I beseech you more reverently. [1021] Perhaps some of the uninitiated are within hearing.
Eran.--I will both hear and answer in mystic language.
Orth.--You know that the Lord called himself a vine?
Eran.--Yes I know that he said "I am the true vine." [1022]
Orth.--Now what is the fruit of a vine called after it is pressed?
Eran.--It is called wine.
Orth.--When the soldiers wounded the Saviour's side with the spear, what did the evangelist say was poured out from it?
Eran.--Blood and water. [1023]
Orth.--Well, then; he called the Saviour's blood blood of the grape, for if the Lord is called a vine, and the fruit of the vine wine, and from the Lord's side streams of blood and water flowed downwards over the rest of his body, fitly and appropriately the Patriarch foretells "He shall wash his robe in wine and his mantle in blood of the grape." For as we after the consecration call the mystic fruit of the vine the Lord's blood, so he called the blood of the true vine blood of the grape.
Eran.--The point before us has been set forth in language at once mystical and clear.
Orth.--Although what has been said is enough for your faith, I will, for confirmation of the faith, give you yet another proof.
Eran.--I shall be grateful to you for so doing, for you will increase the favour done me.
Orth.--You know how God called His own body bread?
Eran.--Yes.
Orth.--And how in another place he called His flesh corn?
Eran.--Yes, I know. For I have heard Him saying "The hour is come that the Son of man should be glorified," [1024] and "Except a corn of wheat fall into the ground and die, it abideth alone; but if it die it bringeth forth much fruit." [1025]
Orth.--Yes; and in the giving of the mysteries He called the bread, body, and what had been mixed, blood.
Eran.--He so did.
Orth.--Yet naturally the body would properly be called body, and the blood, blood.
Eran.--Agreed.
Orth.--But our Saviour changed the names, and to His body gave the name of the symbol and to the symbol that of his body. So, after calling himself a vine, he spoke of the symbol as blood.
Eran.--True. But I am desirous of knowing the reason of the change of names.
Orth.--To them that are initiated in divine things the intention is plain. For he wished the partakers in the divine mysteries not to give heed to the nature of the visible objects, but, by means of the variation of the names, to believe the change wrought of grace. For He, we know, who spoke of his natural body as corn and bread, and, again, called Himself a vine, dignified the visible symbols by the appellation of the body and blood, not because He had changed their nature, but because to their nature He had added grace. [1026]