Then Ronse asked me whether I had not been present somewhere, and adjured me three times by my baptism, that I should tell who was present. I told him that I would not tell him one word. Ronse said: “You have denied your baptism; Menno will take it ill, that you deny your baptism.” I said: “My faith and baptism I know, but with your adjuration I have nothing to do; I thereby know that you are sorcerers.” Then Polet said: “We may swear.” I replied: “See Matt. 5, whether he does not prohibit swearing altogether.” They said: “No.” I said. “Yes.” Then Polet looked into a Bible which they had brought with them, a large book, and it read there just as I had said.
Thereupon Sir Cornelis said: “The Bible is false; our Latin Bible reads differently.” I said: “Do you bring false books to me? Why do you say it is false? And it is privileged--why then do you let them circulate with privilege, seeing you examine them?” He replied: “I did not examine them.” I said: “Some of the learned men at Louvain.” Then Ronse whispered to Sir Cornelis Roose and said: “It is true, they are examined, and were good, but the printer had a boy, who misprinted them, while his master was gone to town. Ronse asked me how it came that I so easily believed a man whom I perhaps would never more see, and suffered myself to be baptized by him; and that I would not believe them, whom I saw daily, yea, them who were present and had instructed me at this time and before, as they said, and why I would not believe my pastor, who daily preached the gospel. I replied [that I did not believe him] because he was a liar, and that I had heard him preach that it could nowhere be found written that Mary was a mother and a virgin. But (he said) because their church taught it, therefore it had to be believed. Therefore, said I, I will not hear him, since I had read the contrary in Isaiah (7:14), and in Matthew and in other places. Having thus heard lies proceed out of your mouth, I after this heard neither you nor any other, and I hope by the grace of the Lord I never shall.” He said: “No.” I said: “Yes, and I offer my body to the rack, against yours.” But he had no desire for it, and said: “What! should I go to the rack? You assert that our church is not good, because we are not blameless; are you blameless? There are such of your people that have committed murder, because men would not believe them, nay, would not adhere to their doctrine.” I said: “Did you see this in me, or anything else that is unseemly? I am here in the hands of the judges, that they punish me for it.” Ronse said: “We know nothing of this kind of you.” I said: “Then don’t tell me what another does, nor consider me bad on account of the misdeeds of others. No one is to bear the burden of another; you are not to bear mine, nor I yours. The soul that sinneth, it shall die.” Gal. 6:5; Ezekiel 18:20.
Much more yet was said by them, but it is not worth while to write it. They also said that Christ had said that the scribes and the Pharisees sat in Moses’ seat, and that he had commanded us to do after their commandments, but not after their works; therefore, said they, do what we advise you, but do not after our works, since Christ teaches this. Matthew 23:1,2. I asked: “Who did Christ say sat in Moses’ seat?” _Ans._ “The Pharisees.” I asked again: “Does this Scripture belong to you?” _Ans._ “Yes.” I said: “Then you confess that you are of their generation?”