_Fr. Corn._ Bah, but if the regeneration of water and of the Spirit does not concern children, they must certainly and unmistakably go to the devil; for you acknowledge yourself, that he who does not believe will be damned. Bah, children do certainly not believe as you also say. And when they besides remain unbaptized, and die thus, they must surely be damned; for by what other way could they be saved, eh?
_Herm._ By the death of Christ, as I have told you. And Christ also says (Matt. 5:18,19), that to such belongs the kingdom of heaven.
_Fr. Corn._ Yes, these are the same arguments with which your hedge-preacher yesterday made my spleen run over. Bah, what does all this disputing and arguing amount to; if you would suffer yourself to be converted, you must be willing to be taught, and brought to the Catholic, Christian faith of our mother, the holy Roman church, and to her baptism and religion. Bah, why will you trust so much in the heresies of that damned arch-heretic, Menno Simons, and so firmly rely upon this bewitched hedge-preacher? Bah, why do you not believe me as well as that Menno Simons? for I am as learned, and have read as much, and certainly much more, as this * * * bishop, Jacob the weaver, and as a Dietrick Phillips, and an Ubbo Frisius, and such devil’s brood, I suppose, eh?
_Herm._ I trust (or build) not upon Menno Simons, nor upon any man; for the prophet Jeremiah says in his seventeenth chapter (v. 5): Thus saith the Lord: Cursed be the man that trusteth in man.
_Fr. Corn._ This is very true; in this you say very well, see; if you begin to talk like this, I feel quite hopeful, that I will convert you with the help of God, from this miserable Anabaptism. So I will first prevail upon you, to renounce the same, and to have your unbaptized children baptized in the Catholic church, by a priest, as a good Christian is in duty bound to do, see. Well, Herman, what think you of this, eh?
_Herm._ I do not think that you are the man that will convert me to your mother, the Roman church, or who will bring me to it, that I shall have my unbaptized children baptized in the papistic church.
_Fr. Corn._ Ah bah, how do you talk in this strain again; a thousand devils (God bless us), what has come over you? It seems, as though he would trust no longer in Menno Simons, nor in any other man; but as soon as I begin with kindness and friendliness to admonish him to renounce Anabaptism, and to have his unbaptized children baptized in our Catholic church, he instantly pipes another tune. Is this not a fine thing? If you will not be converted, and have your unbaptized children baptized in our church, after the Catholic rite, you can be burned alive at the stake, see.
_Herm._ This you papists could also do just as well, even if I turned from my faith, and had my unbaptized children baptized in your church.
_Fr. Corn._ Be sure, we could; but we would give you the sword. If you will suffer yourself to be converted with kindness, I insure you the sword, that I do.
_Herm._ For what purpose should you give me a sword? it would be of no use to me, for we use no swords.
_Fr. Corn._ Tush, tush, tush! you well understand what I mean by it: you would only be beheaded with the sword, see.
_Herm._ After I should have truly and unfeignedly confessed, that I had erred in the faith, and after I should have my unbaptized children baptized in your church, would I then, according to your saying or meaning, not be a good, upright Christian?