_Fr. Corn._ Ah, bah! that was another thing; those children were circumcised, and thereby they were saved, though they died unbaptized; bah, here you are in a corner, happen what will, yes, yes, yes!
_Herm._ Those children were not all circumcised; for the faith in Jesus Christ was preached and taught also among the uncircumcised gentiles; now I am out of the corner again.
_Fr. Corn._ Indeed? I shall put you in the corner again. Bah! as the children of the uncircumcised Gentiles, that died without baptism, went to the devil, so your children that die without baptism also go into eternal perdition; do you understand this?
_Herm._ Our children that die before baptism certainly do not go into eternal perdition, any more than did the children of the Old Testament, that died uncircumcised before the eighth day.
_Fr. Corn._ Ah, bah! do you think that the children of the Old Testament, that died uncircumcised before the eighth day, are saved? bah, this were a fine thing.
_Herm._ Yes, this we think, without once doubting it, and I am surprised to hear you doubt it.
_Fr. Com._ Bah, what do you make of the original sin then, which the children inherit from Adam and Eve, eh?
_Herm._ What do you make of the death of Christ? for John the Baptist said: “Behold, the Lamb of God, which beareth away the sin of the world.” John 1:29.
_Fr. Com._ Bah, Christ bears away all the sin of the world, as you Anabaptists understand, think and believe. Bah, who then shall be damned? no one, I suppose.
_Herm._ Christ says in the sixteenth chapter of Mark: “He that believeth not shall be damned;” but he nowhere says: He that is not baptized (understand, in infancy) shall be damned.
_Fr. Corn._ Bah, here you lie with your vile, false, lying mouth; for did I not tell you, that in the third chapter of St. John it is written, that Christ said to Nicodemus: Verily, verily, except every man be born again of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God? bah! here I have certainly cornered you, have I not, eh?
_Herm._ No; for Christ there speaks of no external baptism, nor does he mention baptism; but he speaks of the regeneration which is performed by the Spirit of God, who is sometimes also called a water in the holy Scriptures. For thus says the Lord by the prophet Isaiah in the forty-fourth chapter (v. 3): “I will pour water upon him that is thirsty, and floods upon the dry ground: I will pour my Spirit upon thy seed.” Again, by the prophet Ezekiel, in the thirty-sixth chapter (verses 25,26): “I will sprinkle clean water upon you, and ye shall be clean: from all your filthiness, and from all your idols, will I cleanse you. A new heart also will I give you, and a new Spirit will I put within you.” Again, in the thirty-ninth chapter (v. 29), the Lord says by Ezekiel: “I have poured out my Spirit upon the house of Israel.” Again, by the prophet Joel, in the second chapter (v. 28): “Then will I pour out my Spirit upon all flesh,” etc.
_Fr. Corn._ Well, all this is done through the sacrament of baptism, when the children are baptized; for then the devil is exorcised by the priest, and they are cleansed from the original sin, inherited from Adam and Eve, and they obtain a new heart and a new spirit; bah, thus does God pour or shed his Spirit upon all flesh; you will not cheat me out of this--you are cornered and remain cornered, see!
_Herm._ I tell you again, that Christ, when he talked with Nicodemus, meant such a regeneration as does not concern external baptism, nor does it children; but it concerns the true believers in Christ, who are begotten according to the will of God, by the word of truth, as James says in the first chapter. Again, Peter, in the first chapter of his first epistle, says: “See that you love one another with a pure heart fervently: being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth forever.” Of similar Scriptures which do not concern little children or external baptism, there are more yet.