The Bailiff then rang the bell, and the beadles came. I then said to the priest: “If my lord had not been present, I would not have made so many words with you.” “That I believe,” said the priest. I took off my cap and bade them good evening, and they me. And I said to the pastor and begged him, that if I had spoken any word too hastily, he should excuse me for it. “Yes,” said the Bailiff, “and so do you to him, do you not?” “Yes,” said I: and thus we parted.
It further happened that they confined us all three in separate places, apart from one another, and took away the Bible from us, one which they themselves had let us have, and which the Bailiff had previously consented that we might have; but we remained of very good cheer, the Lord be praised.
On Sunday, the 16th of July, 1570, I was taken down again, and they tied my arms, which they had never done before, for I had gone down with the jailer, fettered together with another. This surprised me much, whereupon the beadles told me, that the priests had required it of the Bailiff. Thus they brought me before two priests, namely, Mr. Maerten, and the pastor of the New Church, who had once before been to see me. When I came to them, I bade them good day, and they returned the salutation. Then they said: “We have visited you once, and now we come again, to see whether you are not more willing to yield, than you were the other time.” I said: “I say as I have already said: If it can be proved to me clearly and expressly, that infants were baptized, I will gladly suffer myself to be instructed:” With this answer they were not well pleased, since they have no Scripture for it. But they asserted that I must suffer myself to be instructed, and that infants had of a long time been baptized in the Christian church; and that it had always been an ordinance; but I held to the proof furnished by the practice of the apostles. They said that we ought to walk in the old paths. “Yes, in the right ones,” said I; “thus it is written.” Jer. 6:16. They had come to instruct me. “Yes,” said I, “I cannot understand it so.” This they did not like to hear, that I could not understand it; and they said: “You want to understand it before you accept it.” “It is written,” said he, “in the prophet Isaiah, that we must first accept it, before we believe it.” “Where is this written?” said I. “I do not know,” said the priest. “Rom. 10:10,” said I, “we read: ‘With the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.’ I must certainly believe your things with the heart, if I am to accept them: but now I cannot understand it as you do.” This they would not hear; but if I had soundly assented with the mouth to what they said, whether I had believed it or not, it would have been all right.
They begged me much, that I should suffer my self to be instructed, there was not a day that they did not pray for us. They also frequently said that I had strange views, and that I was damned; if I were not damned, God would not be God, he said; and the Scriptures would not be true; this he often said. To be damned, and to lie in prison, these are not good things, said I; for I said as little to them as I could. But the damning did not hurt me; I let them say on. I said: “If you can prove to me, that infants were baptized, I would like to hear it.” They said that whole households were baptized, and declared that there must have been children there. Ans. That you do not know, for there are households in which are no children; I also do not seek salvation from the water.” When they heard this they were greatly astonished. “Yes,” said I, “you say that all unbaptized children are damned.” “Yes,” said the priest, “they are damned.” “Then the women who give birth to such children are badly off.” “Yes,” said the priest. “Indeed,” said I, “then the water must wash away sin?” “Yes,” said they. _Ans._ “I shall prove to you, that it does not.” I then told them, that in Peter 3:21 it is written: “‘The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also save us, not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience.’ And the apostle baptized Simon the sorcerer but the water did not remove his sins, for it is written that he was in the gall of bitterness, and in the bond of iniquity, though he had been baptized by the apostles.” “You say of Peter,” said the priest, “that he writes this; how do you know if it is true? Did Peter tell you himself? And Simon the sorcerer was a worthless fellow for if the apostles had known that his heart was in this condition, they would rather have bitten their fingers, than pronounced the name of God over him.” _Ans._ “This I admit; but the water did nevertheless not wash away his sins.” And they asserted that I must suffer myself to be instructed, and said that I acted contrary to the Scriptures, for it is written, Matthew 18: If thy brother shall trespass against thee, rebuke him; and if he will not hear thee, tell it to the college. “See,” said they “You will not hear us now that we rebuke you; in this you certainly act contrary to the Scriptures.” _Ans._ “What would you teach me then? Would you let me go then, and shun me as a heathen and a publican?” “No, no,” said the priest, “this is your favorite theme, which you always bring up.” (for I had had many words with him in regard to it the last time;) but to let me go was not in their power, he said. _Ans._ “Christ certainly says, when they are reproved, and will not hear, they are to be shunned, and not apprehended. And Paul also says: A man that is a heretic, after the first and second admonition, reject. Tit. 3:10. And now I will not hear you, hence you ought to let me go.” But they did not listen to this that was the magistracy’s business, they said. _Ans._ “You certainly have a faith; show me once where the apostles had magistrates in their church.