Jan De Kudse, A. D. 1556.

Then the jailer came, and said: “Claes, come hither; here are two royston crows;” and enjoined me much to think of my wife and children. I said: “I think of them enough; but Christ has said: ‘Whosoever will not forsake father and mother, sister and brother, wife, child, yea, his own life, for my name’s sake, is not worthy of me.’” Matthew 10:37; Luke 14:26. He said: “It is true, if one can do it.” He then led me into a room where were two Jacobines. They took off their caps, and I did the same with mine. They bade me good evening, and I them. The one asked me: “What is your name, my friend?” I answered: “Claes,” and said: “What is your name?” He replied: “Brother Peter de Backer,” and told me, that he had been at the chief judge’s, and that the latter had requested that he should come and instruct me in the true faith. I said: “This I have received from God.” _Ques._ “What is your faith?” _Claes._ “I believe only in Christ Jesus, that he is the living and true Son of God, and that there is no other salvation either in heaven or on earth.” _Ques._ “Is there nothing else to be believed? What becomes of the mother, the holy church, in whom we must believe?” _Claes._ “Do you know which is the holy church?” _Ques._ “Do you know it, let me hear it?” _Claes._ “I ask you; for you speak of it?.” _Ans._ “The same which was it from the time of Christ, and of the apostles, and which the apostles maintained and still maintain.” _Claes._ “What one is that?” _Ans._ “The mother, the holy Roman church.” _Claes._ “Is this the apostolic church?” _Ans._ “Yes.” _Claes._ “Did the apostles thus maintain it?” _Ans._ “Yes, just as we, neither less nor more.” _Claes._ “Did the apostles read mass?” _Ans._ “Yes.” _Claes._ “Where is this written?” _Ans._ “I will show you;” and he referred me to the Corinthians, where Paul speaks of the supper. 1 Cor. 11:20. I said: “He speaks here of the breaking of bread; but did he read mass as you do?” _Ans._ “Yes, neither less nor more than we do.” _Claes._ “Did the apostles persecute and maintain their church with fire and sword, as you do?” _Ans._ “Yes, they shed blood, betrayed and killed.” _Claes._ “Peter shed the blood of Malchus, and Judas betrayed; but where did they kill any one?” _Ans._ “Peter smote Ananias and Sapphira with the sword of his mouth, so that they fell down dead.” And he laughed and held up his finger. Then said I: “It seems to me you belong to those of whom Paul speaks (2 Tim. 3:5), whom we are to flee; for your folly does not remain hid, but becomes manifest before men; for you sit and mock and loiter, and show plainly, that you are men of corrupt minds, ever learning, and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth.” And I reproved him much. They wanted to prolong the conversation much longer, and question me with regard to baptism, the incarnation of Christ, and other articles of faith; but I had resolved not to dispute with them, without judges being present; but to confess as I confessed above before them. When they perceived that I would hear them no longer, and was on the point of leaving, one of them said: “O Claes, how lamentably you have gone astray; and yet I love you so much; I would that you were of our mind with me, and that I might give my body to be burned. O poor man, I will pray for you, and have others pray for you, when I preach.” _Claes._ “I don’t want you to pray for me, nor that you have others pray for me; for your prayer is vain, and is not heard by God, so long as you people continue in your wickedness.” _Ans._ “Perhaps there are one or two in the whole number, that are good.” _Claes._ “Begone; for you only want to talk.” Then he went away laughing, saying: “I shall have you prayed for, whether you desire it or not, for I like you well; and I will come again.”