He made no reply to this, but looked at me sharply, and, after a few moments said: “Is it Calvin who writes: ‘Attestation (that is, testimony) of a good conscience?’ These are the false prophets that deceive you, people; but the genuine text does not read so.” _Jac._ “I am not imprisoned for the doctrine of Calvin.” I begged him again and again to let me read in his book, how the apostle wrote it, namely, in his own testament which he had before him, or in his Latin Bible, which was of very small size, and translated and printed by Rombertus Stephanus, at Paris. But however I prayed him, he would not let me read; hence I said to him: “My lord, you ought not prevent me from proving the word, since you contradict it.” After additional words he said to me: “Since you will not believe in the holy teachers, such as St. Ambrose and St. Augustine (and a host of other saints whom he named to me), and in the ordinances instituted by the holy church, what then will you believe?” _Jac._ “I believe only in the ordinance of Christ; or prove to me that the apostles baptized little infants, and I shall believe it.”
He attempted to do this by the households that were baptized, in which, he said, infants might well have been included. I replied that the Scriptures said nothing about there having been any infants there, but that they clearly prove that those households heard and believed the word, as is written of the jailer, and also of Cornelius, the centurion, and all that were of his house, who received the Holy Ghost as well as the apostles; namely, those who heard the word. Acts 16:34; 10:45. Hence, my lord, you cannot prove to me, that there were infants there.” _Inq._ “I will not insist upon it that there were infants there, or that there were none there, since it admits of doubt; but you must believe what the fathers and the holy doctors have ordained concerning it in the church, and practiced until the present time.” _Jac._ “Did those teachers institute this ordinance with a good intention; or did they institute it because it was an ordinance of God, contained in the Scriptures?” _Inq._ “They did it according to the word of God, with a good intention.” _Jac._ “My lord, you well know how strictly the people of Israel were forbidden to do anything according to their own opinion, but that they were only to do what the Lord commanded them. Deuteronomy 4:2. For Saul was rejected of God, because he had not acted truly according to the word of the Lord which had been commanded him, but had followed his own opinion.” 1 Sam. 15:23.
After many other words, which we had together, he went away from me, saying: “Jacques, I beg you, that you will well consider this matter; for you are in error and deceived.” _Jac._ “I am neither in error or deceived, and I have already considered the matter: since you cannot prove to me by the Scriptures that the baptism of infants is an ordinance of God, hence I do not believe it.” _Inq._ “Why do you want me to prove it, since you do not believe in the holy teachers of the Catholic church, nor their ordinance.” _Jac._ “My lord, it is written: ‘Every plant which my heavenly Father hath not planted shall be rooted up.’” Matt. 5:13. After many other words he went away, saying to me: “Farewell, Jacques; consider the matter well and pray diligently to God.” I also bade him adieu, and said that I did indeed hope always to call upon the name of the Lord for help. Ps. 116:4.
There were many other words that we had together, which I have not written, because I do not remember them well, and I was seized with an attack of fever. I have forgotten to write his allegations with which he sought to prove that circumcision was a figure of baptism, and hence, it [the latter] had to be used in like manner; whereupon I proved to him by the Scriptures, that circumcision was a figure of the covenant, and signified nothing but that they were included in the covenant, and children to whom belonged the promise. Genesis 17:11. But Paul shows us that he is not a Jew or child of Abraham, who is one outwardly, or according to the flesh of his seed; but he that is one in the heart, as Christ says, that they are Abraham’s children, who do the works of Abraham, though they be Gentiles according to the seed of the flesh. Rom. 2:28,29; John 8:39. And I showed him that baptism signifies the true regeneration, even as Christ showed Nicodemus, and the putting off of the old man, in newness of life, and that hence we had to be regenerated, and not born anew, as they would assert; and that where there was no regeneration, there was no need of a sign, since this were only mocking God. John 3:5; Rom. 6:4. He said to me: “Shall the infants have no part then in this sacrament?” I told him that the sacraments had been left to be used in the holy church, for those who have ears to hear, and hearts to comprehend, and to understand the sacraments; and not for infants. We conversed much more yet on this article, and I showed to him the abuse which they have in their baptism, contrary to the Scriptures, and concerning the baptism of prudent midwives, how that they regard it as good, and yet rebaptize the recipients of it; I therefore told him that they were Anabaptists.