On Monday, the 10th of January of the same year, I was again brought before the same inquisitor, who, after a few words, asked me: “Have you made up your mind with regard to baptism?” _Jac._ “I have nothing else to say, than what I have told you already: since you cannot prove to me with the Scriptures, that the baptizing of little infants is an ordinance of Christ, I do not believe in it, but hold to the baptism which Jesus Christ ordained, and which he commanded his apostles.” _Inq._ “This the false prophets have taught you, of whom the Scripture says that they shall come, and who have gone out from us.” _Jac._ “Such false prophets shall be known by their fruits, says the Lord. And as regards your remark that they went out from you. Paul, when at Miletus, showed to the elders of Ephesus (Acts 20:30), that among them, and out from the flock, there should arise wicked men, teaching perverse things--is it not so, my lord?” _Inq._ “Yes.” _Jac._ “Is not, then, my lord, the baptism which you people practice, a perverse and utterly contrary thing, since Christ commanded to baptize those who believed and were instructed and taught. And the apostles baptized only those who received the word; but you people baptize only those that do not believe, and cannot be instructed or taught, nor receive the word, since they are infants: which appears to me utterly contrary, and like putting the cart before the horse.” _Inq._ “This is because you are in heresy, my child, and do not believe the holy teachers; see how it will go with you. Well then, let us speak of another article.” And having seen and read the confession which I had read before the commissary, as I said before, he asked me: “What do you believe of the eucharist?” _Jac._ “What is that?” _Inq._ “Of the sacrament of the altar.” _Jac._ “Do you mean the Lord’s Supper, or breaking of bread?” _Inq._ “Yes, it is the same thing, eucharist, sacrament or supper.” _Jac._ “My lord, it is not the same name; for, see, how the apostles named it: Luke says that they brake bread from house to house, and not the body of Christ.” Acts 2:46. _Inq._ “That which Luke speaks of there, is the word of God, which they distributed to every one.” _Jac._ “My lord, so say also David Joris and other heretics, who abolish the breaking of bread. But observe, when Paul was at Troas and they had gathered together in the night, so that a young man fell down from the high loft, Luke says that Paul continued his speech until midnight, so that the young man fell through a window; and when they had come up again, Paul having raised him up, they brake bread and eat it--they did not eat the word; after which Paul talked till break of day, and then departed.” Acts 20:7.
When he heard this he looked at me sharply, and did not know what to say. “Do you not believe,” said he “that when the priest has pronounced the words, our Lord is in the bread, in flesh and blood, just as the Jews had it in their hands, and crucified it?” This question he asked me very many times, and as I did not seek to dispute with him, I said: “My lord, if you can prove it to me by the Scriptures, I will believe it.” He urged me, saying: “Say yes or no, what do you believe of it?” _Jac._ “That which the Scriptures testify with regard to it.” _Inq._ “I ask you whether you do not believe that he is in the sacrament, in the flesh and blood, just as he was on the cross?” Perceiving that he became heated, I delayed a little with my answer. _Inq._ “Well, what do you say?” _Jac._ “Nothing, my lord.” _Inq._ “That I hear, but why do you wait so long with answering, yes or no?” _Jac._ “My lord, it is written: ‘Be swift to hear and slow to speak.’” James 1:19. _Inq._ “Well then, Jacques, say but yes or no; if you believe that he is in the bread, in flesh and blood, say yes.” _Jac._ “My lord, if I were to say yes to you, how could I prove it to you by the Scriptures, that he is there in flesh and blood, after the priest has pronounced the words? for I have never read it in the Scriptures, and since I could not prove it to you, therefore I will not say that it is so.” _Inq._ “Then you do not believe it, do I hear, No?” _Jac._ “I believe nothing further concerning it than what the Scriptures testify, and how should he be in the bread, my lord? since it is written, that he ascended into heaven, and sits on the right hand of his Father, until he shall have made his enemies his footstool.” Mark 16:19; _Inq._ “Do you not believe that he is able to sit on the right hand of his Father, and also to be in the bread?” _Jac._ “I believe that he is the Almighty; but he cannot do contrary to his word: for he must be true, and he is the only truth himself.” John 14:6. _Inq._ “Will you not believe this Scripture: Take, eat; this is my body, which is given for you? do you not believe then that it is his body?” _Jac._ “Which do you believe to be his body, that which was delivered and suffered for us, and sat at the table, and spoke, or that which he held in his hand, namely, the bread? was this delivered for us, and did the bread die on the cross for our sins? and did not the bread represent his body?” _Inq._ “Both.” _Jac._ “I have never read that there are two Christs, but only one only Son of God.” This I had often told him before. _Inq._ “These two are but one; and the wine, too, is his blood, after the priest has pronounced the words.” _Jac._ “Does the wine become his blood, after the word has been spoken, and does it always remain blood, and not wine?” _Inq._ “After the word has been spoken, the bread is his true flesh, and the wine is the true blood of Christ, and they remain flesh and blood.” _Jac._ “What then did Christ mean to indicate to his disciples, when he said: ‘This is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many for the remission of sins. But I say unto you, I will not drink henceforth of this fruit of the vine.’ Matt. 26:29, etc. My lord, Christ calls it his blood of the New Testament, and yet he indicates to his apostles, that it is still a fruit of the vine, seeing he still calls it so, after he has said that it is his blood.” _Inq._ “Where do we find this written?”