Gotthard Of Nonenberg And Peter Kramer, A. D. 1558.

Thereupon he laughingly asked me: “Jacques, was not Peter also a sheep of Christ?” _Jac._ “My lord, if he was chosen of God, he also belonged to the flock.” Matt. 10:1. _Inq._ “Answer, yes or no.” _Jac._ “I believe that he was not only a sheep of the flock of Christ, but even a shepherd.” _Inq._ “Well then, he, who was a sheep, killed two persons.” _Jac._ “Whom?” _Inq._ “Ananias and his wife Sapphira.” _Jac._ “How did he kill them, seeing he had neither stick nor sword? was it not the Spirit of the Lord?” _Inq._ “Nevertheless, he did it.” _Jac._ “My lord, do not give the glory to men, as though they could do this by their own power; for they were killed through the Spirit of the Lord: moreover, it was not for such a cause as that for which you put people to death: but it was because they lied against the Holy Ghost.” Acts 3:12; 5:3. _Inq._ “Well, Jacques, my son, this brings us no further; see that you consider the matter well, reform, and become converted to the faith of your fathers, for you are in error; hence believe as a good Christian is bound to believe, and do not attempt so many things.” _Jac._ “Faith is the gift of God, says Paul.” Eph. 2:8; Rom. 12:3; 1 Cor. 12:9. _Inq._ “Yes, it is truly the gift of God.” _Jac._ “Hence men cannot give it.” _Inq._ “Certainly not; we must pray to God for it.” _Jac._ “How comes it then, that they want to compel me to believe, by threats of death?” _Inq._ “Time is given you, to become converted.” _Jac._ “My lord, how much time? six, seven, or eight days, as I have seen in Brabant; can one change his faith so speedily?” _Inq._ “I know nothing about Brabant, but here we give people six weeks at least, to see whether they will believe, when the word of God has been presented to them.” _Jac._ “Why do you say, my lord, if they will believe it? You talk as though they could believe of their own accord, and yet you say that faith is the gift of God. The apostles had heard the Lord Jesus, who was full of wisdom and truth, for two or three years, and yet they could not comprehend well, as you may gather from the two disciples who went to Emmaus. Luke 24:13. Paul also had heard the apostles and disciples; yet he could not comprehend, but cast them into prison. Acts 9:1. But when it pleased God, he made manifest his will to them, at the time which he had prepared, and not at any man-appointed time.” _Inq._ “That was because they had not yet this doctrine, and as it was in the beginning, they could not comprehend it.” _Jac._ “It was because it was not given them, or because they were not drawn by the Father (John 6:44). Why do you not also wait until God does his will with us?” _Inq._ “You have heard for a long time, and time is still given you for consideration; you have three weeks yet from this day, to consider the matter.” _Jac._ “My lord, do you not mean that after three weeks I shall be put to death?” _Inq._ “You may turn yet in the meantime.” _Jac._ “But if it be not given me, to understand differently, and I cannot comprehend otherwise, how shall I turn?” Inq. “For this reason time is given you, in order to see whether God will not show you mercy that you may become converted.” Jac. “My lord, I have in mind just now the children of Israel, who were besieged in the city of Bethulia, and suffered from scarcity of water, so that their wives and children died for thirst, and they said: There is no hope from God for us any more; let us deliver the city into the hands of the enemies. Judith 7:23, etc. Thus you people also say: There is no more hope that he will turn; let us deliver him to death. And as Ozias, the ruler of the city, thinking to give good counsel, said to the inhabitants: Let us yet wait five days, and if within these five days there come no help from the Lord, we will deliver the city to our enemies. My lord, were they not sharply rebuked by a widow named Judith, who said to them: Who are ye that have tempted God this day, and stand instead of God among the children of men, and would comprehend his purpose,” etc. Judith 8:12, etc. _Inq._ “This cannot be compared to your case.” _Jac._ “My lord, it appears to me to be the same thing; for you people say that if no help comes from God within the time appointed us by you, we must be delivered to death, and according to what you say, we are damned to all the devils.” _Inq._ “Jacques, there is no doubt about it.” _Jac._ “But how do you expect, my lord, to escape God’s judgment, since you thus send us away to damnation? why do you not leave us in the hand of God until the end? for as long as we live here, hope may always be entertained of reformation, seeing you think that we are damned; but after death there is no longer any hope.” _Inq._ “I do not drive you to damnation; for I am not the one that judges you; nor will I be guilty of your death.”